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Poster: jerlouvis Date: Jul 30, 2011 1:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: long-term listening strategies

I did not mean to come off as bad mouthing Dick,but as far as him understanding the music,I will stand by my clueless statement.I think it is a no brainer that the 68'-74'era is the most important,the big jams being where it's at,and the value of the recordings in the vault.I started going in 78' and realized very quickly that what I was seeing was an inferior version of what had come before,and I did not not have access to what is available now,but there was enough to make it very clear as to the truth of the matter.Now I'm not saying Dick did not have a vast knowledge concerning the bands catalog,and I'm not commenting on what was released in his name,it is more about not getting what the good music was,of course that is a completely subjective statement.I would think the foremost quality you would want in someone who is listening to your archive of recordings to suggest what should be considered for release to your listening audience,would be an expertise in what was good about your music,not a fan or enthusiast who's strengths were in other areas.Here are some excerpts from Dick's review of 1/22/78 from Deadbase.The first set ranks as one of the best ever,with each tune having something extra.Just a ridiculous statement.He goes on to say "the second set opens with Bertha-> Good Lovin' that is as exciting as I have ever heard this typical medley.It was in actuality a run of the mill Bertha,and since I don't listen to Good Lovin' I can't comment other to say I can't imagine it being all that fantastic,since after all it is Good Lovin'.He comments on Terrapin as "things get especially hot with the most potent and meaningful version of Terrapin Station ever done.I couldn't begin to find any meaning in the nonsense that are the lyrics of Terrapin Station and also I found it to be a weak version,granted I am no Terrapin scholar.I would challenge anyone to listen to the above mentioned songs and be in agreement with Mr. Latvala.I lost any respect for his opinion after reading that review.

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Poster: wisconsindead Date: Jul 30, 2011 1:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: long-term listening strategies

you bring up a good point jerlouvis (sp?). I also recall finding a quote from Dick praising the 1978-10-21 other one which I found to be totally lack luster. there were moments where it almost reached great intensity, but paled in comparison to other 1978 other ones. And in no way was it an other one to be remembered.

Though I must say, Cliff mentioned a Jack Straw of which he said could likely be the best ever (or something close to that) and I found it to be standard and definitely not even in the realm of best ever. Yet Cliff's opinion is held quite high by others and his knowledge of the music, at least as far as I've seen, is clearly above average; hes no dummy.

That being said, are all of us a bit clueless at times?

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Poster: jerlouvis Date: Jul 30, 2011 2:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: long-term listening strategies

I hear what you're saying wisconsindead,and I understand we all might have a pet version,and we all can flat out be wrong on ocassion,I wasn't calling him out on one for instance,just pointing out multiple questionable statements in one short review.In his show notes,interviews and various articles, I read over the years,I found his opinions on what was good to be very suspect. As for Mr. Lemieux he just seems to be a company guy and in what little I know of him I have never heard him state a single interesting fact about the bands music,other than spewing some crap about how great the new 89' video release is or how it's valid to release some of the later era crap because the band was in a resurgence.Blair Jackson is a good writer,but is an ,everything is great fan as far his musical assessments.You need to go no farther than his recent review of the Road Trips release,carrying on about how great the Lost Sailor-> Saint was and how the rest of the show was this and that,I can't put stock in someone's viewpoint if I don't respect their knowledge,not necessarily agree with them,but at least see some integrity in their outlook.

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Poster: wisconsindead Date: Jul 30, 2011 3:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: long-term listening strategies

I feel ya jerlouvis.

I guess what I think they need is a Road Trip Series dedicated to 68-70. and then maybe one for fall 72 hehe (i'm bias!)

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Poster: jerlouvis Date: Jul 30, 2011 6:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: long-term listening strategies

I'm not saying they should only release early era stuff,but at least be honest about whatever it is you are releasing.The folks who enjoy the entire span of the bands career deserve some consideration.

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Jul 30, 2011 2:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: long-term listening strategies

If you know of a performance of Jack Straw with a finer extended instrumental break than 10/27/79, I'd love to hear it...

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Poster: wisconsindead Date: Jul 30, 2011 3:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: long-term listening strategies

My all time favorite is 1987-04-06. It is more focused on rising to a climactic finish. Which I feel is the biggest part of what makes an all time version of Jack Straw.

If I understand you correctly you are referring to the shorter jam that separates verses typically starting at 1:10 into the song? If so the length from your suggested version is 23 seconds long while the one I am suggesting is the same, or 21 seconds to my count. They both contain the same amount of measures as far as I can tell. This 87 version is about 40 seconds shorter though. (79 , 6:26) and (87, 5:44)

http://www.archive.org/details/gd87-04-06.sbd-matrix.hinko.19848.sbeok.shnf

I enjoy your suggested version and its certainly above average, I just don't think its a best ever candidate.

Also I hope I haven't offended you, it was not my intention, that situation seemed like a perfect analogy.

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Jul 30, 2011 3:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: long-term listening strategies

You have not offended me. We are here to discuss the music of the Grateful Dead. The fact that we all don't always agree only makes this discussion more stimulating. Like mathematics, there is always going to more for us to learn about this music, no matter how much we study.

I like the 10/27/28 performance of Jack Straw solely for the extended instrumental break starting at 3:35 (on the most recent Charlie Miller transfer) and lasting a full 2 minutes. Certainly not the tightest rendition (with some sketchy vocals and a somewhat annoying Brent keyboard tone), it is the most jammed out Jack Straw that I am familiar with...

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1979-10-27.sbd.miller.98950.sbeok.flac16

I'm afraid that all the tea in China is not going to convince me that a 1987 performance can hold a candle to it, regardless of what might be a high energy level and an intense crowd reaction. This in spite of the fact that I attended that show.

There are certainly multiple criteria with which to evaluate a performance of Jack Straw. Only one of which is instrumental creativity, which I put at a premium.

If I had to choose the tightest, most aesthetically beautiful performance, with perhaps the most emotive interpretation, I dont think any rendition would trump the Jack Straw in Paris on 5/3/72. I think this will become apparent when the Europe '72 box is released in September and we can hear the song as it was played that night (without the vocal over-dubs)...

http://www.archive.org/details/gd72-05-03.sbd.masse.142.sbeok.shnf

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Poster: wisconsindead Date: Jul 30, 2011 4:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: long-term listening strategies

Right on.

Its now obvious we are looking for different things. And from your perspective, it is certainly a great Jack Straw.

Though, what is it about the late 80's that you don't like? The boys were certainly on (at least during this Jstraw), and for me, thats typically all it takes.

Early Jack Straws... I like them but from what I look for in a Jack Straw, they usually don't have it, the ending jam is much shorter and rarely if ever is climatic. I will say that I enjoy the vocals much more. They certainly possess a unique emotion that is never seen again after the hiatus. My favorite pre-hiatus version is from DP 31. I will take a listen or three to your 72 suggestion.

Thanks for the well thought out reply